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Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:4422-6-07 22:44 Nr:88457
Volg auteur > Van: Sky Opwaarderen
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Article - Stallions: Castration is not the solution Structuur

Sky
Scharendijke
Nederland

Jarig op 19-9

552 berichten
sinds 2-2-2006
I have a dream
By Kenneth Vendelboe

I have for many years believed that stallions were often only made geldings for the simple reason that, "That's what you do." For all these years I dreamt of finding a different way than the commonly accepted way to keep stallions (together with mares), where a castration was not necessary. This dream is the basis of this article.

Finding out how to keep a stallion without putting him in isolation for most of his life was not easy. When I wasn't running my forehead against the Wall of Prejudice and was told that stallions were dangerous, that stallions were fixated on sex, that stallions were uncontrollable, and that stallions really ought to be born pre-castrated, I was mostly just told that stallions couldn't be kept with other horses, that stallions could only think of fighting, and that stallions should just be outlawed. But I refused to believe all these prejudiced opinions. There was a little voice in the back of my head that kept saying it wasn't true. That it didn't have to be true.

In the meantime the dream developed. I lost my heart to the majestic exterior and gentle nature of the Friesian, and in the dream I just know that a 'real' horse herd consisted of this proud Friesian stallion and his mares. The problem was just that, as we all know, a herd with both mares and stallion usually results in a number of foals after about a year, and herein was my biggest problem - I am quite simply too sentimental. I would never be able to sell these foals off, which I got proof for when I bought a pregnant standardbred mare, Diana. Her daughter, Linda, is still running around the pasture, although she's long past the age where she ought to have been sold. She just turned three years old.

In the beginning of the new millenium - yes, we are that far back - I learned of someone in Australia who, to a certain degree, had accomplished what I was dreaming of. However, it turned out that his stallion lived with a naturally sterile mare, and those aren't so easy to come by. But it gave me courage to go on, and I started looking closer at various birth control injections for mares. Unfortunately that was a dead end, at the time the most effective drug was only about 65% effective, and when they were to stay together permanently, the 35% would kick in pretty fast. So that idea was dumped again, and I returned to the drawing board.

Then someone suggested a 'proud cut', as it's called, where the gelding gets to keep a certain amount of the testosterone production, keeps the stallion neck and muscles etc. - and keeps a certain interest in mares. I had my doubt on this solution, and after a bit of research I found out where the doubt came from. It turned out that he'd have trouble with ejaculation, and without that ... well, the mares wouldn't get a moment's peace because he'd keep trying and trying. In the end that sounded almost like animal abuse to me.

By that time I was close to believing my dream would remain a dream - that it simply wasn't possible to keep a stallion in any other way than by isolation from other horses, and that castration - to avoid the isolation - was the only solution.

Then in 2006 came the big breakthrough, the solution where I couldn't find a major drawback. During a conversation with a friend from the Netherlands the topic quickly turned to Friesians - they're from the Netherlands, after all. I think I jokingly asked him if he couldn't get me a cheap, naturally sterile Friesian stallion, and his reply was that it might not be impossible. He knew of a pony stallion who was allowed to freely live with his mares, who covered them a couple of times a day when they were in season, which was about once every three weeks since he couldn't get them pregnant.

This lucky pony stallion had gone through a vasectomy, which is a relatively simple surgical procedure where the vas deferens (the connection between testicles and penis) gets severed, but the testicles get to stay where they are. With this solution the stallion believes he's a stallion, the mares believe he's a stallion, and the only sign that he isn't is the absence of foals. A generally good solution for all parties involved. This idea was discussed for many months, with horse people in many countries, among these at least one expert in equine reproduction - a very sympathetic American. The result was an overwhelming encouragement to try.

For all of this time I had done nothing to make the dream of owning a Friesian stallion actually happen, but with the information I now possessed I started seriously searching through sales ads. In the middle of the summer of 2006 I finally found what I was looking for; a colt for sale in Germany. He was handsome, he was charming, and the price was affordable, so before I knew what was happening the herd had suddenly doubled from two to four, since the needed translator had a filly named Thira af Asgaard for sale. Also a Friesian, and quite adorable. So on Saturday, October 14th, 2006, I was suddenly a stallion owner - even if the 'stallion' at that time was very, very young, just six months old, and acted like anything but a stallion.

I chose to rename this newly arrived colt from his pedigree name of 'Mel Cou' to the more appropriate and easier to pronounce 'Valentin' - with the last syllable pronounced 'teen', not actually 'tin'. I strived to find a somewhat masculine name that wasn't too macho or raw, in an attempt to avoid a self-fulfilling prophecy like Rambo, Killer, Diablo etc. The name Valentin, as most probably know from Valentine's Day, is a name of love, and fit (and still fits) him quite well, both in appearance and nature.

As a big surprise to everyone it became apparent soon after their arrival that the herd's new problem child wasn't Valentin, but Thira, who refused to bend to the absolute rule of the much older mare Diana. Valentin, on the other hand, politely followed orders whenever Diana commanded him around, and after a couple of weeks I caught him nursing from her - she hadn't had milk in her udder for the past two years. She didn't seem to mind, and I haven't seen it happen since. Most probably he needed a bit of extra comfort, as he was very quiet and a bit nervous. For a few months, this was the FULL extent of Valentin's interest in the opposite sex.
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:4522-6-07 22:45 Nr:88458
Volg auteur > Van: Sky Opwaarderen Re:88457
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Article - Stallions: Castration is not the solution Structuur

Sky
Scharendijke
Nederland

Jarig op 19-9

552 berichten
sinds 2-2-2006
Fall came and ... well, it was 2006, so the fall stayed through the winter. Thira slowly calmed down, although the family often agreed that if Valentin had been gifted with Thira's temper, a castration might just have been preferable. In the meantime Valentin really blossomed. He got a bit braver and more adventurous, though he still followed closely behind Thira. As the non-winter came to an end the time approached for the anticipated surgery, and in mid-February Valentin was sent with Thira for company to Ansager Animal Hospital for his vasectomy. The price of this was quite affordable, at only three times the price of a castration, and a week later the little ones were returned home.

I have in connection to writing this article attempted to contact Ansager Animal Hospital again to get their description of how the surgery went, but they have not replied back yet.

It was two somewhat shocked foals that came home from the hospital. Their stay in a strange stall, among strange people, and the transport back and forth had been a bit more than they could handle. Valentin all but stopped eating for the first week after coming home, and Thira only nipped at her grain now and then. It wasn't unusual to come out and find the food buckets virtually untouched. Hay went down a bit easier, but they both managed to lose several pounds before the mood and appetite returned. By mid-March they were a pair of trouble makers again and gaining weight.

Valentin was ordered stall rest by the vet, which would mean he'd be all alone and abandoned for ten days, since Diana's hocks swell if she stands still for too long. And since Diana is the herd's leader, the others would follow her out. Eventually the stable was closed off with all four inside, so they could at least walk around a bit, and since there was total peace in the herd I wasn't afraid they'd start kicking each other. Ten days later the doors were opened again, and the joy of the reunion with pool of mud we called the pasture was great. Like I said, this was the winter of 2006/2007, where every pasture in Southern Jutland was flooded.

Finally spring came, with longer nights, warmer days, dry weather and sprouting grass. The horses were allowed to stay out longer and longer. During this time the roles started switching between Thira and Valentin. Where Thira had so far been the dominant of the two, had always set the pace, had always decided when to play and not, it now started to be Valentin leading on, and unfortunately that power got a bit to his head. To start with he just nipped her a bit at random, but it turned into him chasing her around the pasture. Funnily I never got out to separate them - because every time I started putting on my shoes, Diana appeared out of nowhere to pry them apart, sending Thira into the stable and Valentin out to the pasture. Then they could each stay there and cool off, while she blocked the stable entrance. This repeated itself two or three times, and hasn't been observed since.

Near the beginning of April Diana, still the undisputed leader of the herd, decided that now she didn't want to sleep indoors anymore. This came suddenly after the big pasture, which had been allowed to stand untouched while the grass grew, had been re-opened. April offered wonderful weather, warm and dry, and as the month went Valentin started showing interest in the girls, if still not a lot. A bit of flehmening here and there, but that was all. On the 28th Thira celebrated her first birthday, and just a couple of days it dawned on Valentin why the mares suddenly seemed so interesting. Now the whole show was put on, with great interest in tails and what lay beneath, flehmening constantly, and three days later, on April 23rd, he lost his virginity to Diana late at night.
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:4622-6-07 22:46 Nr:88459
Volg auteur > Van: Sky Opwaarderen Re:88458
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Article - Stallions: Castration is not the solution Structuur

Sky
Scharendijke
Nederland

Jarig op 19-9

552 berichten
sinds 2-2-2006
In these days, as Valentin truly found out his own gender, everyone paid close attention to his behavior. Did he get rougher? Did he turn aggressive? Did he fixate his thoughts on covering? Did he turn impossible to handle? Did he stop eating? No, quite the contrary:

He was still just as gentle; one night I went to check on the horses, he ended up sleeping in my lap for 45 minutes - and even after that long I had to force him to move, because it was getting late. While I sat with him in my lap he started dreaming, and it turned out he talks in his sleep, so to speak. At least the hurring, low nickering, which is usually used to convince a mare to raise her tail, revealed what he was dreaming about.

There was no aggression to find in him. The closest would have to be when he chased the dogs out of the pasture, but that was a game they'd played for months by then, so I didn't care much about it: He chases the dogs out of the pasture, the next second they chase him back towards the middle of it, and they can go on back and forth several times like that. They never hurt each other.

Fixated on covering, then? Countless times, the first day Thira was in season, she'd stand ready for him with her tail raised, and almost just as many times he'd walk right by her. It wasn't him, who could think of nothing else, but her, which again came as a bit of a surprise. Any concerns that he'd be rough during mating were put away as well, as he turned out to be both gentle and careful.

How about impossible to handle? ONE of the prejudices had to stick! But no, for the first time ever he was taken on a little trip in a lead rope outside the pasture, and he actually behaved better than Linda had done the day before. The mares were taken out after turn to teach him that they could leave the pasture without him being allowed to interfere, but to avoid him feeling overlooked, he also got a little walk.

But the food? Stallions forget all about eating when mares are nearby, right? Actually not. In reality it made me very unpopular with Thira when I stole his attention by asking if no one wanted breakfast. Valentin immediately forgot all about her and came trotting in to find his food bucket.

So as things are now the dream really has come true. If his gentle nature doesn't change drastically as he grows older, which I have a good feeling it won't, then Valentin, Diana, Linda and Thira now all have a life far closer to what it'd be in the wild. They have a herd as it would've looked on the plains, and they each of them seems the happier for it.

In time the herd's life will possibly be different from life in the more traditional domestic herds, which only consist of mares or geldings, who have nothing to do with each other, or in still rarer cases mares and geldings in the same herd. Valentin's life will most probably be far different from what most stallions are used to. I can say beyond doubt that I will be watching for any changes and developments as they happen, that I'll document them, that dreams just might become reality - and that castration is no longer the only solution.

If there are specific questions, problems or points of general curiosity you would like to have answered, you are more than welcome to send me an email - they will be answered in the next article.
_________________
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:4922-6-07 22:49 Nr:88460
Volg auteur > Van: Peter Donck Opwaarderen Re:88452
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur

Peter Donck
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5970 berichten
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Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:00:

>>> Egon van gedachten gewisseld over de tegenstrijdige hulpen
>>> die je geeft met neckreining in het western rijden met
>>> een cross.
>>> Normaal rijd je met een losse teugel en leg je die tegen
>>> de hals aan de linkerkant als je naar rechts wil.

en bovenal is neckreining een sprookje
het is gewoon bodyreining
maak dezelfde beweging net niet tegen de hals
of gewoon zonder teugels
en je krijgt hetzelfde effekt
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:4922-6-07 22:49 Nr:88461
Volg auteur > Van: Peter Donck Opwaarderen Re:88452
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur

Peter Donck
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5970 berichten
sinds 18-9-2004
Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:00:
>>> Egon van gedachten gewisseld over de tegenstrijdige hulpen
>>> die je geeft met neckreining in het western rijden met
>>> een cross.
>>> Normaal rijd je met een losse teugel en leg je die tegen
>>> de hals aan de linkerkant als je naar rechts wil.

en bovenal is neckreining een sprookje
het is gewoon bodyreining
maak dezelfde beweging net niet tegen de hals
of gewoon zonder teugels
en je krijgt hetzelfde effekt
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:5022-6-07 22:50 Nr:88462
Volg auteur > Van: eddy DRUPPEL Opwaarderen Re:88460
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur
eddy DRUPPEL
Nederland

Jarig op 18-4

10699 berichten
sinds 26-3-2006
Peter Donck schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:49:

> Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:00:
>
>>>> Egon van gedachten gewisseld over de tegenstrijdige hulpen

> het is gewoon bodyreining
> maak dezelfde beweging net niet tegen de hals
> of gewoon zonder teugels
> en je krijgt hetzelfde effekt

Se da gebeurt nu altijd se dieje "knip" hoe komt dat ?
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:5122-6-07 22:51 Nr:88463
Volg auteur > Van: Peter Donck Opwaarderen Re:88452
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur

Peter Donck
Homepage
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5970 berichten
sinds 18-9-2004
Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:00:

>> Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 19:25:
>>
>>> Egon van gedachten gewisseld over de tegenstrijdige hulpen
>>> die je geeft met neckreining in het western rijden met
>>> een cross.
>>> Normaal rijd je met een losse teugel en leg je die tegen
>>> de hals aan de linkerkant als je naar rechts wil.

en bovenal is neckreining een sprookje
het is gewoon bodyreining
maak dezelfde beweging net niet tegen de hals
of gewoon zonder teugels
en je krijgt hetzelfde effekt
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:5422-6-07 22:54 Nr:88464
Volg auteur > Van: Peter Donck Opwaarderen Re:88462
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur

Peter Donck
Homepage
moorslede
belgie

Jarig op 5-10

5970 berichten
sinds 18-9-2004
eddy DRUPPEL schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:50:

> Peter Donck schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:49:
>
>> Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:00:

>> of gewoon zonder teugels
>> en je krijgt hetzelfde effekt
>
> Se da gebeurt nu altijd se dieje "knip" hoe komt dat ?

"le cut-belge" I supose
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:5822-6-07 22:58 Nr:88465
Volg auteur > Van: eddy DRUPPEL Opwaarderen Re:88463
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur
eddy DRUPPEL
Nederland

Jarig op 18-4

10699 berichten
sinds 26-3-2006
Peter Donck schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:51:

> Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:00:
>
>>> Piet schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 19:25:

> het is gewoon bodyreining
> maak dezelfde beweging net niet tegen de hals
> of gewoon zonder teugels
> en je krijgt hetzelfde effekt

Yep maar meestal is het spoorreining meestal toegepast door een oetlul met een hoedje op in een veel te vet lijf met veels te grote prikdingen . Sparky (Q) die hier toekwam met die peesproblmenen is één van de grote uitzonderingen . E Creim van e pjekke , licht te rijden en 200% bomproof . ZOu graag zijn trainer is aan het werk zien.
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:5822-6-07 22:58 Nr:88466
Volg auteur > Van: Esther Opwaarderen Re:88464
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur
Esther
Friesland
Nederland


5661 berichten
sinds 2-11-2003
Peter Donck schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:54:

> eddy DRUPPEL schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:50:
>
>> Peter Donck schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:49:

>>
>> Se da gebeurt nu altijd se dieje "knip" hoe komt dat ?
>
> "le cut-belge" I supose

LOL Kutbelgen ;-)
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:0022-6-07 23:00 Nr:88467
Volg auteur > Van: eddy DRUPPEL Opwaarderen Re:88466
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur
eddy DRUPPEL
Nederland

Jarig op 18-4

10699 berichten
sinds 26-3-2006
Esther schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:58:

> Peter Donck schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:54:
>
>> eddy DRUPPEL schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:50:

>>
>> "le cut-belge" I supose
>
> LOL Kutbelgen ;-)

ELA ELA Gij klein ollanderke daarboven oplette he of ijsco wordt frisco :-D
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:0222-6-07 23:02 Nr:88468
Volg auteur > Van: Esther Opwaarderen Re:88467
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur
Esther
Friesland
Nederland


5661 berichten
sinds 2-11-2003
eddy DRUPPEL schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:00:

> Esther schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:58:
>
>> Peter Donck schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:54:

>> LOL Kutbelgen ;-)
>
> ELA ELA Gij klein ollanderke daarboven oplette he of ijsco
> wordt frisco :-D

Hahaha je moet eens op dat woord gaan googelen ;-)
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:0322-6-07 23:03 Nr:88469
Volg auteur > Van: Esther Opwaarderen Re:88468
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur
Esther
Friesland
Nederland


5661 berichten
sinds 2-11-2003
Esther schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:02:

> eddy DRUPPEL schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:00:
>
>> Esther schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 22:58:

>> ELA ELA Gij klein ollanderke daarboven oplette he of ijsco
>> wordt frisco :-D
>
> Hahaha je moet eens op dat woord gaan googelen ;-)

met Kuthollanders gaat het ook, maar toch wat minder prominent ;-)
Volg datum > Datum: vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:1222-6-07 23:12 Nr:88470
Volg auteur > Van: eddy DRUPPEL Opwaarderen Re:88469
Volg onderwerp > Onderwerp: Re: Dr Cook Bitloos Structuur
eddy DRUPPEL
Nederland

Jarig op 18-4

10699 berichten
sinds 26-3-2006
Esther schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:03:

> Esther schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:02:
>
>> eddy DRUPPEL schreef op vrijdag 22 juni 2007, 23:00:

>> Hahaha je moet eens op dat woord gaan googelen ;-)
>
> met Kuthollanders gaat het ook, maar toch wat minder prominent
> ;-)

Is ook normaal jullie zijn minder prominent aanwezig!!
Je leest nu op chronologische volgorde
Warboel
Mix van alle berichten uit alle rubrieken (forum oude stijl)
Onderwerp starten18942 onderwerpen
275559 berichten
Pagina 5898½ van 18371
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